And now, a message with no humor whatsoever

speed · #1 (**permalink**) 09-12-2007, 03:58 PM

I couldn't agree more with the short editorial at the end of this page.

SM

Squirrel · #2 (**permalink**) 09-12-2007, 04:04 PM

Very true words there....

mrpiff · #3 (**permalink**) 09-12-2007, 04:25 PM

Now that cuts to the heart of the matter. Tolerance of a behavior within any organization, sect, or society implies approval.

Fubar · #4 (**permalink**) 09-12-2007, 05:52 PM

YOu know lately I have been trying to understand what this Muslim faith is all about...hence I have been doing a little research...my motive came from the lack of middle eastern folks who show up to support our fallen. Weather on the Highway of Hero's or at the Coroner's office in Toronto, or at the local funerals, or for that matter at Rememberance day ceremonies...add all of these up and there MANY MANY ceremonies that I have personally attended, and to date have never seen a person of middle eastern decent. These folks are ALL around me in Toronto, they hold political offices, in fact in my region, they are the majority.

So I thought I would pass some intel along to others...after all we fear what we don't understand....hence I would like to have a better understanding....

The following are some quotes and summaries from the Qur'am, Muslim Doctrine...if someone has more knowledge on the matter I would be interested in your comments...to me, it is fiucked up that any religion has the dircetive's of War in there Teachings....but hell that's just me???......

For most of the fourteen centuries of recorded Muslim history, jihad was most commonly interpreted to mean armed struggle for the defense or advancement of Muslim power. In Muslim tradition, the world is divided into two houses: the House of Islamic Peace (Dar al-Salam), in which Muslim governments rule and Muslim law prevails, and the House of War (Dar al-Harb), the rest of the world, still inhabited and, more important, ruled by infidels. The presumption is that the duty of jihad will continue, interrupted only by truces, until all the world either adopts the Muslim faith or submits to Muslim rule. Those who fight in the jihad qualify for rewards in both worlds—booty in this one, paradise in the next. For most of the recorded history of Islam, from the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad onward, the word jihad was used in a primarily military sense. [10]

Directive of warfare
The directive of the Jihad given to Muslims in Qur'an is:[6]
And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight against you and do not transgress bounds [in this fighting]. God does not love the transgressors. Kill them wherever you find them and drive them out [of the place] from which they drove you out and [remember] persecution is worse than carnage. But do not initiate war with them near the Holy Kabah unless they attack you there. But if they attack you, put them to the sword [without any hesitation]. Thus shall such disbelievers be rewarded. However, if they desist [from this disbelief], Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. Keep fighting against them, until persecution does not remain and Allah’s religion reigns supreme. But if they mend their ways, then [you should know that] an offensive is only allowed against the evil-doers. A sacred month for a sacred month; [similarly] other sacred things too are subject to retaliation. So if any one transgresses against you, you should also pay back in equal coins. Have fear of Allah and [keep in mind that] Allah is with those who remain within the bounds [stipulated by religion].—Qur'an, [Qur'an 4:75]

Objectives of warfare
According to verses [Qur'an 2:190], the Qur'an implies two objectives:[6]
1. Uproot fitnah (فتنة) or persecution
2. Establish supremacy of Islam in the world
Fight those who believe not in Allah or the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission and are subdued.—Qur'an, [Qur'an 9:29]
This directive related to both the Jews and the Christians. The punishment mentioned in these verses is a show of lenience to them because they were originally adherents to monotheism. However, they did not benefit from this lenience because after the death of Muhammad they once again allegedly resorted to fraud and treachery.[35][36][37][38] Consequently, the Jews of Khyber and the Christians of Najran were exiled once and for all from the Arabian peninsula by Umar. This exile actually fulfilled the following declaration of the Qur’an about them:[6]
And had it not been that Allah had decreed exile for them, He would certainly have punished them in this world; and in the Hereafter theirs shall be the torment of the Fire.—Qur'an, [Qur'an 59:3]

Mungo · #5 (**permalink**) 09-13-2007, 01:39 AM

Speedman - great post. This is one thing that has ALWAYS pissed me off about the "Muslim community". They do NOTHING to police themselves or to denounce the actions of the supposed fanatics. This to me, I suppose like the words of Dr. MLK, is as bad as the acts of terror in itself. Whether or not the religion is made up of two factions.

This guy is right, the world does not have enough bombs or firepower to break the Muslim religion from the outside. Change has to come from with in.

FUBAR - another great post. Thank you for some of the enlightenment. The Koran is one of the religious text that I never read. Wish I had. But the words you posted are not of a "religion of peace".

I have some words to say about all of it. But it's really not fit to put them into a public forum, nor risking the reputation of the site.

TexasRed · #6 (**permalink**) 09-13-2007, 04:04 AM

I've always perused Investigating Islam - and for an honest, comparitive analysis of many different teachings, I thought Christian Apologetics Research to be one that appears genuine & fair.

I wholeheartedly agree with the original article's commentary.

FATboy05 · #7 (**permalink**) 09-13-2007, 04:13 AM

Great original post SM, and also all the follow-up posts, very enlightening for sure!

Mominatrix · #8 (**permalink**) 09-13-2007, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mungo

I have some words to say about all of it. But it's really not fit to put them into a public forum, nor risking the reputation of the site.

I couldn't say it any better.

Good original post Speedman and thank you for the additional information Fubar. The whole situation makes me want to load more ammo. Just my redneck religion I suppose.